How slick can a wax be?

[cgallery]

I have an Inca jointer/planer. It is 8-1/2" wide, and has short beds. It also has a thicknessing head that does a pretty good job. With one caveat...

There is no power feed. You have to push/pull the board through the thicknesser. You invariably have to stop (so you can see evidence of that in the board) to switch from pushing to pulling. But it isn't bad.

Except it has always been pretty difficult to feed stock through it.

I've always kept it waxed. First with Waxilit (recommended by Inca). Then I tried Johnson's paste wax. They both worked okay.

But I read a few comments online that the ultra-expensive ($26 for 7 oz.) Renaissance Wax was very slippery stuff.

I had been toying with the idea of getting a thicknesser w/ power feed. But I figured I'd try the expensive wax first. And I have to say that I do think the stock feeds easier than previously (more testing needed).

But I'm left with the question: Are there any waxes or products out there that are even more slick? Like the slickest wax known to man?

Or am I just fooling myself here (I can take it).

[SARGE..g-47]

I keep a small can of Renaissance wax on-hand to use on chisels.. hand plane irons and soles.. etc. It is excellent wax but it also is very expensive as you have noted. Do.. I see a major difference in it and the Johnson's paste I use on machine tops. Frankly no... not enough to warrant the price difference. The Johnson's.. Butcher's Was.. etc... etc. seems to me to be about equally slick based on observation.

When I finish waxing a top (about every month.. sometimes sooner) as I use my machines rather heavily and daily.. I throw a terry cloth towel up on the table surface. If that towel slides rapidly from end to the other and falls on the floor.. it's about a slick as you are gonna get it as basically all the pores are filled and sealed. I do find the Renaissance will hold up a few days longer but to me that still does not justify the price difference as you get about 20 times the amount of wax in a normal can of say Johnson's as the small can of Renaissance.

I suppose I find the question "which is slickest" about the same as "how much sharper can I get a tool" to which I believe.. when it's sharp... it's sharp so use it. So.. when it's slick.. it's slick... so just use it at that point in lieu of worry if you could have gained a micro-slick with another brand.

Good luck in the search for the #1.. To quote the X-Files... "it's out there somewhere"!

[germdoc]

Johnson's seems pretty good to me.

http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2021153/25160/General-La-Brute-Power-Feeder.aspx

Just a thought--could consider adding a power feeder to it. Not sure how this would/could work with your machine though.

[cgallery]

Johnson's seems pretty good to me.

http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2021153/25160/General-La-Brute-Power-Feeder.aspx

Just a thought--could consider adding a power feeder to it. Not sure how this would/could work with your machine though.

Not a bad idea. There are two steel rollers that provide downward pressure on the wood as it goes through the planer. I've previously thought of replacing one or both with hard rubber rollers driven by a hand crank and a gear would work okay.

But then I see the the Ryobi planer for $200 at Home Depot and think I should just get that thing.

[cabinetman]

I don't use wax for anything in the shop. It can have an affect on finishing. Those that use it may say that they have used it for years on end and experience no problems. When I did use it and experienced problems, the contamination can be close to impossible to eradicate.

If you want to try a product as a last resort, try Top Cote. It's the best replacement for wax. It can be used on any surface, and leaves no residue. IMO, it's slicker than JPW or Renaissance Wax.

If you have enough bed to accommodate a power feeder, that would take care of the intermediary hesitation. You can get additional bases to mount on other equipment which makes transferring the feeder very easy.
.

[smorris]

This works for me on the jointer. I chalk the side of the wood running through the blade, after a couple of those the iron is nice and slippery and everything glides nicely. As a bonus, the chalk shows me spots I might have not noticed weren't quite flat yet.

[eccentrictinkerer]

The OP asks if there are any waxes or products slicker than what he's already using. I don't see a request for opinions about the advisability of using wax. Let's stay on topic, please.

I use Johnson's, and I also use Boeshield. Both work fine. The Boeshield leaves a sheen that seems sort of soft to the touch (strange, I know, when you're talking about a cast iron tool table) and strikes me as being a little slicker than the Johnson's. But I've never done any sort of tests such as Sarge describes, so that could just be my impression.

I've probably learned as much from off-topic excursions as I've learned from any other straight-ahead discussions.

My take on the BT3 forum is that it's like a bunch of folks at the water cooler. I s'pose that a gentle nudge to get on topic is needed sometimes, when we get too far afield, but by and large we're having fun, mostly!

Maybe someone can come up with a 'smiley' that would point us back to the topic?

Oops! Found one!

I swear, you can find ANYTHING on the internet!

[JR]

Mr. Zog recommends Sex Wax.

[leehljp]

I have used "top coat" to smooth surfaces and I really liked it, - mainly because it helped make the surface slick without residue rubbing off on the wood. My only problem is that I can't get it over here!

I tried some Japanese waxes, but their waxes produce a LOT of white residue, even after wiping off and apparently clean! The good side to that - is that I learned just how much wax, unseen by the naked eye, does rub off onto the wood. If the wood is finished with oil and wax rubs, then there generally is no problem. But if finishes are used, spots will show up. For that reason, I went to Top Coat when I was in the States.

The chalk idea sounds like a great idea. What about talc?

[cgallery]

Agree, the chalk deserves a shot. I can imagine it working like a bazillion tiny ball bearings allowing the wood to roll along the table.

[phi1l]

A little theory

Wax works for two reasons. First is the nonpolar structure of the wax molecules, and second is that it soft enough to be easily smoothed, but still hard enough to provide a lubricant characteristic.

The Commercial paste waxes are really only about 20%-25% wax, dissolved in about 80% solvent. Once the paste wax is spread on an object.. the surface area/ volume becomes high enough that the solvent then evaporates relatively quickly, leaving the wax in a very thin film.

For protection & slipperiness waxes that are higher molecular wt., Higher melting point & higher hardness.
Carnauba was is about the hardest natural wax and is used in many different formulations. Paraffin wax is a synthetic made from petroleum. But from what I have been able to find microcrystalline wax would probably be the best for our application. It is made by modifying paraffin molecules by adding branching structure to the straight chain aliphatic. the result is a molecule with a higher molecular wt., Higher melting point & hardness.

From the MSDS JPW is a mixture of mostly paraffin with somewhere between 15% & 50% carnauba added in.
According to the MSDS, Renaissance Wax is a microcrystalline wax.

The Top Cote mentioned earlier, seems to be a Teflon based material suspended in a solvent. I don't really know much about the behavior of Teflon products, other than they can withstand very high heat levels. So you you use the TOP Cote product I wound experiment with it to see how would with Top Cote on it responds to stains & finishes. & also see how easy it is for the Top Cote material to be transferred from th saw table to wood.

The Renaissance Wax Web site states that components of carnauba wax can break down over time( probably years) to form acidic compounds that can be corrosive. So I would recommend that to those using JPW, that you clean the old wax off thoroughly before re-waxing.

BAsed on the characteristics of the components, of the waxes, the Renaissance Wax should be the slickest & longest lasting. But the price is pretty steep. You can buy blocks of microcrystalline wax rather cheaply on Amazon. A mixture of 4 parts naphtha & 1 part microcrystalline wax should approximate the Renaissance Wax close enough. .. I'll be trying it out .. so more later..

DISCLAIMER!!!!

Unless you are comfortable with chemistry stuff, don't do this a home. It is going to require heat and 2 flammable organic components, one of them volatile. So don't try this unless you have a fire extinguisher within reach.
If this looks promising, I'll report back soon, .. hopefully with both eyebrows in tack

[cgallery]

Fascinating write-up, thanks!

Although my 7 oz. of Renaissance Wax should last me a lifetime, I would be interested in reading your report of "rolling your own" with the blocks of microcrystalline wax on Amazon.

[rcp612]

From Bostik's advertisement: "Compared to paste wax, TopCote is 30% slicker"
There you have it, Truth in advertising and all,,,,,,,

[SARGE..g-47]

"The Renaissance Wax Web site states that components of carnauba wax can break down over time( probably years) to form acidic compounds that can be corrosive. So I would recommend that to those using JPW, that you clean the old wax off thoroughly before re-waxing"... phi1l

From what I was told at an IWF Show from the Renaissance folks... their wax is microcrystalline and it also states this on the can. I agree it does probably hold up longer as I stated before. I have no clue if it is actually harder as I have no scientific way of determining that but... I would guess it would be due to the fact I find it does hold up longer.

And I will say that a small can will go a long way. I will also caution anyone that uses it to apply it very thinly for two reasons.. that's all that is necessary and it save's excess that will get wiped off. And more importantly.. as soon as you apply it don't wait for it to haze... Wipe it off as soon as you get done with the application by starting the wipe where you started. You leave this stuff on any lenght of time and it is a bear to get off much as pure (almost pure) carnuba once it dries. The main reason I don't use RW is that I have a 20" planer.. 84" x 8" jointer.. industrial table TS and a large BS which relays to large cast iron surfaces and I simply can't afford the RW as often as I wax due to work load and high southern humidity.

I have not tried the Topcote as I believe they reccomend when you use it to not use any other product after?... correct me if wrong. If so.. that is like buying a Festool that is designed to take only Festool accessories. I won't get locked into that situation and the Johnson's Wood Paste is working so why should I fix what ain't broke?

Also agree with phi1l to remove your old wax before application of new. I simply wipe the entire surface of my four large machines with Naptha whick will remove any wax that hasn't been removed from friction of actual work. When the cloth comes up with no residue.. the wax is gone and it only takes a minute or two. Is there a problem with corrosion down the road? I don't know but... I have just always wiped off the old wax first before applying. I don't do that on cars as the wax is over paint and not bare cast iron.

As far as having a problem with fish-eye.. I personally don't. Does wax rub off onto a wood surface moving across it? Yes.. I use Johnson's Wood Paste wax which does not have silicone. Johnson's Car Wax does as most car waxes do. Long ago before I was en-lightend to the effect of silicone on wood I did get fish-eye as I used car wax on machines.

The wood that crosses my machines never goes straight to finish. They are going to be sanded up to 180 or 220 grit depending on if hard or soft wood. Before I use the final coat of sand-paper I wipe the wood clean with Naptha for two reasons. To remove any substance that might have contaminated the surface and to highlight any swirl or glue residue that might remain. If I find any.. more sanding or scraping to remove it before the fact.

As far as a shop getting contaminated over a long period... I have no clue. I have been around many auto body shops that spray and I am aware that contamination is an issue with spraying techniques. And car waxes with silicone are very close to spray booths but again I am not a sprayer so it does and probably will remain a mystery to me if it does or doesn't.

Bottom line is I wax machines with non silicone wax and have no problems with hand laid finishes. Does my neighbor? Don't have a clue...

[pelligrini]

QFT. See my separate reply, below.

Had to look QFT up.
QFT Quantum Field Theory
QFT Quantitative Feedback Theory
QFT Quoted For Truth (website; slang)
QFT Quantum Fourier Transform
QFT Quality Family Time
QFT Qualified Funeral Trust
QFT Quality Face Time
QFT Quantitative Fluorescence Technique
QFT Quest For Tech, Inc.
QFT Quit Freaking Talking (polite form)
QFT Quite Freaking True (polite form)

I'm guessing Quality Family Time in this context.